Welfare: Church vs. State

[15:38] Summer: i’ve invented something the pope should do as his first official act…

[15:38] Keaven: oh

[15:38] Summer: he should offer tithing through e-payments so catholics can just log on and be absolved of sins. sort of a papel paypal.

[15:39] Summer: i think he’d get a lot more people turn back to christ if he made it internet friendly.

[15:39] Keaven: hahahahahahahahahaha

[15:39] Keaven: funny

[15:39] Keaven: though, catholics don’t tithe.. they just give offerings. well, SOME my tithe, but its not a church wide thing anymore

[15:39] Summer: mike’s parents tithe.

[15:39] Keaven: at least, that’s what i’ve heard from my grandmother and others

[15:39] Keaven: good for them

[15:40] Summer: hum. well maybe they just take 10% of their salary and donate it in a regular church offering – not as an official tithe.

[15:40] Summer: but it’s in their budget 10% of income to church so i assumed it was the official one

[15:41] Keaven: if everyone tithed like that, and gave freewill offerings on top of it, there would be no need for a government run wellfare system

[15:42] Summer: well that’s assuming the church gave that money back to the communities. i think they probably keep it for themselves.

[15:42] Summer: so we pay taxes (tithe) and donate money to charities and that pays for government run welfare

[15:43] Keaven: i don’t think the government should have to deal with a wellfare system

[15:43] Keaven: but thats just my issue

[15:44] Summer: really? should they abolish welfare altogether or have it be privately run?

[15:44] Keaven: in a perfect system, yes

[15:44] Keaven: in my opinion…

[15:44] Summer: for the privately run one?

[15:46] Summer: yes, in a perfect society,i agree that would be ideal but in our society we’d have issues of some organizations having more, some having less, the minorities wouldn’t necessarily have organizations watching out for them, would it be discrimination for a private charity to help one person and not another… it’d be a mess. our society can’t handle it.

[15:46] Keaven: i think the governemnt should abolish welfare… if there is a real need for a support system, i feel it should be a burdon of the church. I’ve always felt that one of the roles the church played in a community was one of service.. orphans, widows, helping the poor and needy..

[15:46] Keaven: it’s discriminitory as it is.. people almost expect minoritys to be on welfare

[15:46] Keaven: they make it very difficult for them to come off of it

[15:46] Keaven: socity i mean

[15:47] Summer: yes, but that unfortunately means you basically have to be religious in order to receive help and that’s not really fair. it’s like AA being a religious group – you have to trade a support group that helps you get over an addiction for a sermon on god every week.

[15:48] Summer: a lot of the government welfare programs these days combine work study with welfare. you can’t get checks or green stamps unless you are in a trade school or job program

[15:48] Summer: so they are working on helping people help themselves more than just providing handouts.

[15:48] Keaven: again… i have an ideolistic view in my head.. jesus never gave a sermon to the people he healed, i would expect that the charities would simply help people without faith requierments.

[15:48] Summer: still not perfect, but from what i know of the system, they are doing more to level the palaying field.

[15:50] Summer: i would expect the church to help people with no faith requirements either but historically they have not. look at the years of missionaries and crusades. the church wants something back for helping people in need. if not actual money, they at least want souls to spread the word. which is kind of like a bargain with satan when you think about it.

[15:54] Keaven: i have just always felt that it was the role of the church to make sure that the community of which it was a part, took care of those who couldn’t.. no strings.. that would fee the local and federal government of the burdon of a welfare system.. since they can’t get it right anyway

[15:54] Summer: i completely agree with you but i have to caveat that with “in a perfect society” which we are far from.

[15:58] Keaven: also.. people -have- to pay their taxes or go to jail (eventually). no one is -forced- to give money to the church (thought various guilt/fear/manipulation tactics may be used, there is no -legal- ramifications for not giving money to the church). so there is no guarantee that the community would fund a, technicly, volanteer welfare system

[15:59] Summer: that’s a very good point. and unfortunately a very very small % of what we give to taxes is actually going to communities. most of it is going to the president and defense.

[16:00] Keaven: that’s why i think that there should be no federal taxation at all. only the state should tax, and a portion of the tax revinue the state collects would go to the federal government

[16:01] Keaven: and every state’s contribution would be equal (percentage wise) so no one had more “say” than anyone else

[16:01] Summer: i just wish we could designate where our money went. if you don’t have kids, you don’t have to pay for schools. if you don’t support arms, you don’t have to pay for the defense stuff. if you want to support charity and welfare, you can opt for your taxes to go to that.

[16:02] Keaven: heh.. like giving money to the united way.. you can designate what types of charities get your money